December 30, 2012; San Diego, CA, USA; San Diego Chargers tight end Antonio Gates (85) during warmups prior to the game against the Oakland Raiders at Qualcomm Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Christopher Hanewinckel-USA TODAY Sports

Four AFC West Members Make All Overrated List


The crew over at Walter Football created a list of most overrated players around the league and a player from each AFC West team was listed on there.

Here were those fellow AFC West members:

Darren McFadden, RB, Oakland Raiders
McFadden has all the potential in the world, but he is one of the most injury prone backs in the league. Last season, it wasn’t even an injury bug that slowed him down, he just didn’t perform.

Antonio Gates, TE, San Diego Chargers
Everyone and their mutha is jumping on that train. I already have shared my opinions on this in the past.

Dwayne Bowe, WR, Kansas City Chiefs
He may be overrated, but he sure knows how to beat our secondary. Antoine Cason and Quentin Jammer couldn’t do jack against him in the years past. We have two new corners this year and hopefully we can slow that production down.

Wes Welker, WR, Denver Broncos
We don’t see much of him out here, but we will get him twice a year now. It should be interesting. I can’t say I agree with this one. Pairing Welker up with Manning seems like a scary tandem to me.

Next Chargers Game View full schedule »
Sunday, Aug 2424 Aug1:00at San Francisco 49ersBuy Tickets

Tags: Denver Broncos Kansas City Chiefs Oakland Raiders San Diego Chargers

  • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

    Everyone but McFadden seem to be questionable choices for “most overrated” on this list, IMO.

    • arnie

      Agreed. Oh i get it. like mathews should be on this list?

      • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

        Yes. Although… I don’t know if people rated him very high to begin with, except he was a first rounder. “Overrated” is such a borderline term.

        • arnie

          well that’s the problem with throwing that tag around. The first thing that should be established is, What is the criteria? then we could look at it and decide if it’s fair. I get the idea it’s more to stir up controversy, and boost rating for ones show {coughdameshekcough}.

          • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

            Hahahaha… he’s an east coast guy, so it doesn’t surprise me.

            I suppose, if it were me writing BS like that, money would be the first criteria. Production would be the next. What people don’t realize (outside of us fans, who read up on that injury), is that Plantar Fasciitis is REALLY painful. Have you ever simply strained that muscle in the arch of your foot, or had your wife get a little to rough with a foot massage? It hurts like a bitch! When the tendon actually rips from the muscle / bone, I can’t even imagine putting on a cleat, and running around on turf.. it takes forever to heal. Just because it isn’t one of the “popular” nagging injuries, doesn’t give it any less credibility than turf toe, or a torn Achilles. It’s still on your foot, and involves muscle being torn from the bone. Gates’ injury gets downplayed, because he manned up, and played through the pain anyway, to help our struggling team. I would think it is 90% healed at this point, if not 100%. We’ll see this year, suckas!

          • Nick in PB

            Pete, thanks for pointing that out… it’s not a popular injury but since we are talking overrated, it might very well be the most underrated injury. Gates is far from being overrated. That’s just ridiculous! How can you rate someone as overrated when he was the best at that position for years! Just Stupid!

          • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

            Agreed. The season needs to start, so that guys like this can write about what players ARE doing, instead of guesstimating what they THINK they might do, based on their fictional viewpoints.

          • Nick in PB

            Exactly!!! Doesn’t this seem like the longest month ever??? I just hope that when training camp begins, we are talking about the players that are stepping up and performing and not injuries! I still hate that they are calling Gates overrated. C’mon… the whole Chargers offense was effected by poor play calling and an even worse offensive line. But outside of San Diego, they don’t understand that!

      • Redfrognetworks

        Yes. He should be. To rate Matthews as anything would be an overrating.

    • Redfrognetworks

      Shocking coming from a Dolt fan. I notice you aren’t pointing to a Super Bowl trophy in your avatar. Do any of you Dolt fans know what that even is? Need me to explain it?

      • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

        That’s my rally monkey. I bring him out when we are losing to the Raiders. He has only been needed three of the last nineteen times our teams have played. Sixteen losses. That’s 8 seasons! I would be bitter too. Oh, and you guys should rub your last brain cells together, and come up with something more insulting than “dolt”. Chokeland, jokeland, and faders are much better disses than that. And, they are very good descriptions of the Raiders franchise, and its fans.

        • Redfrognetworks

          No Super Bowls ever. And we get two home games a year when we play you. Best I can come up with. I honestly don’t spend much time thinking about your lousy team and disloyal fans

          • http://www.signonsandiego.com/ Ambitoos

            We really don’t know what to expect this year until we see them play but you can rest assured of one thing, that they will finish a head of the Raiders.

          • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

            I know that’s the best you can come up with, and that’s sad. Do the Raiders have some “cut & paste comments” page we don’t know about? Where their fans can go, and lift the same old tired insults, and you can post them as if they were your own original thoughts? You say you don’t spend much time thinking about our team, Yet here you are… spending time thinking about our team. Isn’t that ironic? And these “Disloyal Fans” rallied enough votes on NFL.com to make sure our uniforms beat yours out on the “Best Uni’s of all time” poll. Go check the Raiders Twiiter page, begging their “loyal fans” to try and rally to beat out ours… laughable. Wasn’t even a race. Go Oakland loyalty!

          • Adam

            YES!!! You sometimes remind me of brave heart…you can give one helluva battle speech!

          • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

            Lol. And I promised myself I would take it easy for a few days. That went out the window pretty quick.

        • Adam

          Even a chiefs fan voted that comment up! Check it out!

      • Alter Ego

        mmm…I guess you’re wrong. We have to reach back for this – it isn’t really relevant now except to say the Oakland bull shit 30 years ago isn’t either. Your 3-16 against us the last 10 years…if we are considered bad – WTF does that say for you.

        • Redfrognetworks

          Umh, it says we have been terrible? That’s pretty obvious. At least I can see it objectively and admit it. The fact that you guys can look at Rivers and Gates and Matthews as your strengths is truly pathetic. I’m not sure which is sadder actually. That you guys think they r your strengths? Or the fact that this washed up bums actually might BE your strengths.

          • Alter Ego

            There isn’t anything objective about you. The three guys you named are all pro-bowlers. So yeah, they are a strength. The Raiders are picked to finish dead last in just about every poll known to sports…so what exactly is your point?
            The Bolts own the Raiders this decade and this year. You got no shot at anything but the first pick in the draft – well, you and the Jets…it will be close.

  • superman_25_58

    Dwayne Bowe overrated? He has been putting up 1000 yard seasons with nothing but Horrible QB’s throwing him the ball. I see a break out year for “The Bowe Show” bc he finally gets to have a smarter, more accurate QB throwing him the ball as well as MUCH improved HC and coaching staff IMO.

    • arnie

      See as a chief fan you know bowe better than me. so you can see How questionable the “overrated” tag is. So the question becomes, What is the criteria for being overrated?

      • superman_25_58

        To me the criteria for being overrated as a receiver is IMO not being able to perform and put up numbers consistently with who ever is behind center. Bowe has done this year in and year out. Bowe has done it against many double teams and Bowe is also a dang good blocker in the run game as well. So overrated I say no bc he takes care of business on Sundays with QB’s like Matt Cassle, Brady Quinn, Tyler Palko, Thigpen, Brody Croyle, etc…. So as you can see he has never had anything close to the Manning Bro’s, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Luck, Rodgers, RG3, Cam Newton, Russel Wilson etc… With Alex Smith coming to town being accurate like he is I see no signs of Bowe declining any time soon, instead I see him being a very dangerous WR. With Alex throwing the ball Bowe knows the ball will be put spot on so he won’t have to worry about getting killed and Bowe is a big physical YAC type receiver so Reid’s offense is set up perfect for Bowe. Time will tell but I’m a believer!

        • arnie

          Good, now take your criteria to Walter Football, because he disagrees with you.

  • Cgoodness13

    Welker is the only one that deserves to be on that list, he pretty mutch cost the patriots the Super Bowl vs the giants

  • ECAVILLE/Ace of Spades

    AFC WEST (aside from the Faiders who only have a good secondary) are verry well rounded. The road to the play offs is taking care of the divisional rivals. Looking forward to some old school keep it simple football that runs the ball and scores at will. Let Lightning Strike down our opponents!

  • Adam

    I believe gates will be in the pro bowl this year. Because of his rep, he only has to play slightly above average and he makes it…plus I believe he will be very good this year with MM running the short passes which he excels at…and exploiting coverage

    • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

      Great thoughts Adam! I’m down for that ; )

      • Redfrognetworks

        Nice baby blue unis! Call it cut and paste all you want. It’s only cause its true. Never won a Super Bowl. Only team in our division that’s never been able to do that. Pretty pathetic. All those embarrassing “air coryel” years where your defense was so soft and efeminate you couldn’t win Eden when you scored 50 a game! We have more fans at every single Charger HOME game we play in. It’s actually laughable. And if you think Antonio “two year foot problem, 35 year old” gates or Phillip “cry me a river (whiniest biatch I’ve ever seen in football), dead arm, never won anything” Rivers or Ryan “only guy that’s on the field LESS than McFadden” Matthews r gonna do anything this year, the kool aid supply is certainly dried up in SD.

        • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

          I love it when you guys come all the way down to SD to watch your team choke.. good stuff. As for Mathews & Rivers being bad.. always been good enough to school the Raiders 90% of the time. How many QB’s have you guys had under center? All of them stunk, and so will this one ; )

          • boatsailor

            Funny he talks about Mathews, How many games has mc fadden played in, in his career? and as far as Q.B.’go ou dead on with that point.

          • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

            I didn’t want to bring McFadden up to him, because he would just talk in circles. I figured it would be best to discuss the team in general. What’s funny, is that I would have put Mathews on this list before Gates, but he assumes that I think Mathews is awesome. I hope does better this season, but he has to prove it, or we need to move on. As for McFadden, was he even injured last year, or just not good?

        • Adam

          Wow your criticizing rivers? I don’t need to defend him cause his stats do that for him…but I’m not sure you wanna talk about your quarterback for the past few years…oh wait, there’s to many to count! What a joke.

        • JoseSD

          Funny the way Raiders fans talkout of their ass without knowing any facts, Mathews missed more games than McFadden?I guess they don’t teach addition in whatever prison Raiders fans come out of. DMC has missed 23 career games while Mathews only 10, but it’s not fair to compare since DMC has been around longer so ill just compare the last 3. Mathews has 10 and DMC has missed 16 in those same seasons. You guys love your Raiders history but the chargers won an AFL championship and played in the championship game multiple times before the NFL merger. It’s not a super bowl but it is an AFL championship the same league where the Raiders were a piece of shit team. But please tell us more about the Raiders glory from 30 years ago, and while you’re at tell me how cool 8 track players were, what it was like to see color TV for the first time, what was it like when Michael Jackson was still black. congratulationson winning that title with cheaters using stickem to catch balls with their elbows and Upshaw and Shell covering themselves in it to stick to d linemen. 1983 is the Raiders fans security blanket to make them feel better about their team being complete shit for the last 20 years. I love when you guyssay we have a second home game we fill your stadium. Don’t believe the bullshit you here at the welfare office. Its more like 30% and itsgoing even less this decade since the raiders have gone 3-13. You raiders fans don’t even sell out your own stadium. Since returning to Oakland 55% of your home games have been blacked out. Maybenow that the mummy Al Davis died you might be able to turn the team around but it won’t be soon. You have no QB, an injury prone RB, Veldheer is the only decent linemen and is a free agent next year, no TE, Moore and Ford are one trick pony speed WRs,, the only players on yourdefense that are respectable are Burris and Houston, the d line used to be decent but Shaughnessy Seymour and Kelly are gone. Your crazy if you think the raiders finish better than 3rd within the next 3 years.

      • Redfrognetworks

        And Pete, you seem awfully close to that monkey? What else do you have him “rally” around. And btw, jbb was replaced/bought out or whatever by fansided. There hasn’t been a post on your link for over 3 months. Just like the baby blues haven’t been able to win a Super Bowl in 3+ decades! LMFAO.

        • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

          My monkey is a lover, for sure. Al Davis used to give him blowjobs when he was alive.

          “There hasn’t been a post on your link for over 3 months.” What.. this link? LMAO! Our site is rockin’ and rollin’ son! And your twitter page is rockin’ too… zero followers.. loser.

      • Redfrognetworks

        I’m following you Pete because I wanna see what your gonna do to that monkey next. I don’t trust you. Probably have to report you to PITA or the SPCA or something. Leave that monkey alone. No means no.

        • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

          crickets

          • Redfrognetworks

            First of all, I’ve had twitter for like 3 days, and set it up to follow certain people. I couldn’t care less of anyone ever knows I’m there. Second, as pathetic as WE have been, we r 3 and 3 against YOU the last 3 years, and up 11 all time still as well. So what exactly does that say about the baby blues? And 3rd, was Al Davis blowing your monkey before, during or after our 3 Super Bowls? And have you forgiven your monkey? And can your monkey even find your dlck under that 200 pound belly of yours? No wonder you care about twitter so much. Your am overweight monkey lover who is a fan of a team that has never won and will never win anything. I actually feel bad for you. But I feel worse for the monkey.

          • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

            Yeah, hold onto that 3-3 thing, cuz it’s going to be a 5-3 Charger lead after this season… and so on, and so forth. I’d say get used to it, but 16 losses out of 19…you can’t really get anymore used to it than that. Have you even actually SEEN the Raiders win a Superbowl, or did your grand-pappy tell you about it when he was french-kissing you, while giving you an oil check?

          • boatsailor

            Is this moron for real ? I LMAO every tine I read his replies to you Peter. More proof that some gene pools should not be allowed to procreate, Just like the pic’s above. If gone to the games in oaktown ( by the way have you ever been there ? Truly a shithole. ) I wore a Weddle jersey, Not one word from anyone. of course the faiders got got boned on national T.V. as usual.

        • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

          Let’s talk about your avatar, and what you really look like.

        • Adam

          PITA?? Do you mean PETA? Are you insulting someone or ordering a sandwich. Typical Raider fan illiteracy.

    • Redfrognetworks

      LMFAO. Spoken like a true charger fan.

      • Adam

        Spoken like a true soccer fan.

        • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

          Take it as a compliment, Adam. He is such a tough guy, he made that profile JUST to comment to You, Arnie, and myself. WE Must have really gotten his boys boiling. Lmao! He’s talking smack about my avatar, but his is a newbie egg. You just can’t fix stupid.

          • boatsailor

            What makes your comment ring true is the fact he didn’t get it. But that just goes to show you the faider mentality, Like you stated ya just can’t fix stupid. That’s Ok, he will continue to talk sh*t. as the Chargers. They just don’t get it. Like the Moron representing the faiders on NFL channel for the best uni’s of all time. NOW there’s a faiders fan ROTFLMAO !!!!

        • Redfrognetworks

          Wth does that even mean? Lmao.

          • Redfrognetworks

            Story like this come out and our boards r full. I see 4 Dolt fans. That’s about right. Can’t wait till we smoke you on our two home games against you this year. Lmao.

          • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

            Funny… The Raiders fansided site, Just Blog Baby, is a friggin’ ghostown. Check out all those board comments! The biggest one is 33 comments, and half of them are Charger fans! The majority of the articles are just like your avatar… gooseggs! Here is the link, in case you forgot where it was.

            http://justblogbaby.com/

            Smoke us like last year? Or like the other 16 games you’ve lost over the last 19 games?

          • http://www.BoltBeat.com/ Peter Thompson

            Now you are following me, dooshbag? Why? Typical Jokeland fan.

      • Adam

        It means you don’t know shit about football if you underestimate Antonio gates

  • Steve

    Just more motivation for Gates after his low top 100 ranking. I bet he takes it out on a few linebackers this year. :)

  • JoseSD

    Replacing Eric Berry for Bowe would be more accurate

  • Redfrognetworks

    Hey Pete,

    I’d rather look like that. Or an egg for that matter, than an overweight, half-blind, type two diabetes candidate monkey facker like you. And worse, a fan of a team that has found new an creative ways to lose and piss away talent for 5+ decades and have absolutely NOTHING to show for it. There r only two chargers in the HISTORY of your team I would have ever wanted on my team. And one blew a hole in his chest an the other is the worst talking head in the history of NFL radio (I think they already fired him actually). Your a joke. And your team is a joke. And deep down, you know it. I hate the last two Raider decades. I can’t imagine how I’d feel if I had the last FIVE charger decades instead.

    • Adam

      Luckily most if us only have memories of the awesome, ass kicking years…it’s kinda like when old people like yourself talk about the great depression…yea it’s technically part of the history of my country and yea I’m sure it sucked but I could give two shits about it cause it affected me no way.

  • Redfrognetworks

    Hold onto what’s current? Ok, I think I’ll do just that! Haha.

    And yea, I saw all of them. 8 years old when we got our first. How old we’re you when you got your first?

    Super Bowl I mean. Not monkey.

    Go ahead. You can say it. We all know the answer.

    • Adam

      It seems like your really obsessed with that monkey…the way you can’t stop mentioning it…it’s ok, America’s a lot more accepting these days. Just get your own…I think Peter would be weirded out by the way you would wanna use his.

  • Redfrognetworks

    Tumbleweeds……….

  • Redfrognetworks

    And Pete,

    You know what’s really funny? I already know we don’t have a franchise QB or a decent TE or an RB that can stay on the field. The hilarious irony is that neither do the Dolts! And those r supposed to be your strengths.

    Rivers is mentally and physically done, nvm the fact that he’s the biggest crybaby in the NFL, hands down.

    Gates is done too. Do you REALLY think a guy at his age w the injuries he’s had over the last two years and the beating he’s taken the decade prior to that, actually has a chance to get to the pro bowl?? He has NO shot. He’s done.

    And Matthews? I’m not even gonna bother with your “overrated number 1 pick”. I’ve seen that plenty first hand. He’s done too, no different than McFadden, except McFadden has at least had limited success. Matthews is an NFL afterthought.

    I honestly think the Dolts will be lucky I win 4 games this year. One of those wins MIGHT be from us. Maybe.

    Overall, the Raiders r actually in much better shape than the Dolts, now and for near future. Once Rivers stinks up the NFL for the 3rd year in a row, it’s all gonna come crashing down around you.

    Only team in our division that never won the Super Bowl. And the worst team in the division this year. Not much going on in SD. Past or present or future.

    • Adam

      Wow there’s no point in arguing with you anymore. You lost ALL your credibility with that last comment.

  • Redfrognetworks

    Umh, I’m not retarded like you guys. I’m not arguing that the Raiders r better than the Dolts over the last decade or two. That would be stupid.

    My point is that no matter how good your team is, you’ve never managed to win anything first of all. Where r these “ass kicking” years you r talking about? You have none. In 5 decades.

    And your triumvirate, if you wanna call it that, is all but dead. If Rivers has his 3rd bad year in a row, will you finally believe it? Or Gates for that matter? You guys talk crap, and your team IS crap. Yet you wanna talk crap about the Raiders? The Raiders have sucked for years, that’s not secret, in case you haven’t realized that.

    How about comparing yourselves to a team that actually wins stuff? Like Denver or New England? Or just about any team besides the Raiders or Jacksonville? Because there is no team that has achieved LESS than the Dolts, in the history of the NFL. But you always have nice regular season numbers. Well congrats on that!

    • Alter Ego

      Well…I think you are stupid – or at the very least you have no idea what your talking about. I did go back and check the last 10 years for the AFC West…I left out the Raiders because they have been pure dogshit.

      Chargers 95-65 / AFC W champs 5x

      Broncos 90-70 / AFC W champs 3x

      Chiefs 68-92 / AFC W champs 2x

      I think that says it all. The Chargers have currently won more than any team in the division.

  • arnie

    This never ends. Gates has been a 6 time pro-bowler, and is second to Tony Gonzales. Gates status of being “overrated” is questionable at best. What. has. McFadden. done?
    That’s why it is fair to replace mathews or even meachum on this list to represent the Chargers, because it is warranted.
    STICK TO THE TOPIC.

  • PunjabiPete

    bowe over ratyed mabey if he was number 1 but he should be number 2 behind charles

  • Redfrognetworks

    LMFAO to joseSD. You wanna tell me I’m in the dark ages and talk about the friggin AFL??? Hahahaha. You have no history. No consequential existence in the NFL whatsoever. And if you really wanna talk about the afl, as of anyone gives a crap, we won some championships there too. We didn’t get to Super Bowl 2 magically. We were decent straight through till the 90s.

    And in case you haven’t noticed, not once have I said how “awesome” the Raiders are. Decades of bad trades and contracts and draft picks. Jamarcus Russell. McClown. The list is endless. And I’m not even gonna get into its a “new regime” and things r gonna change, because I couldn’t care less about your opinion about my team, and I’d be an idiot and delusional to think I could change your mind anyway.

    My point is, YOUR TEAM IS A JOKE. You’ve never won anything. We get two home games a year against you (don’t know what you do in attendance the rest of the year, and idc), Phillip rivers and gates r done physically and mentally. Matthews will be a certified bust if he doesn’t do something this year, for a change. And ru really gonna tell me you would rather have crybaby rivers than drew Brees? Or maybe we can talk about Ryan Leaf?

    Doesn’t matter. There’s no doubt the Dolts have had more talent and better coaching and even front office than us for the most part over the last two decades. Point is, as usual, you’ve got nothing to show for it. 0.0. And yet you guys still have the nerve to talk about ANY other team? Much less one that STILL has you dominated in the lifetime series? And .500 short term.

    The Raiders might suck right now. But history shows we will eventually win, because we’ve done it before. I have that hope. You’ve got nothing. Well nothing except afl championships I guess! LMFAO!!!

    • boatsailor

      What’s with this idiot ? I’ve noticed a lot of cut and paste, But the biggest deal with all this Super Bowl talk ? We’ve been and got smoked like any team would have against S.F. that year. But this clown lives in the past. and that is the saddest fact of all. The faiders are loser’s for at least the next 5 to 7 years Period.

  • Redfrognetworks

    Hey alter eggo! I think that only says it all of you wan to avoid taking about superbowls. Why would that be? Hhhhhrrrrmmmmm?????

    Oh yea. Because the Dolts have never had one and never will.

    Go Saints! I love those Brees and sproles guys! Can’t help but root for them. LMFAO!!!!

  • Redfrognetworks

    I mean, seriously? I know what it’s like to be pathetic for two decades. And you know what it’s like to be pathetic for two decades. But I can’t imagine what it’s like to have not won anything meaningful in my entire nfl franchise history? How does that even feel? You guys have to tell me. Please?

  • Redfrognetworks

    And your big three really r done. I’m not saying that just to get under your skin. They r seriously done. Gates is like 35 and has had foot problems for over two years. Feet r kinda important in the NFL. I know this first hand w my team. And Rivers? Psychologically done, although I admit he’s not quite old enough or arm dead to completely rule out. But he’s close. And Matthews? He’s one more injury away from being a trade Nate bust. An you guys think you’re in good shape?? You’re delusional.

  • Reivax Soirreb

    Another McFadden basher. But I know that you would love to have the “overrated” McFadden on your team. He will prove a lot of people wrong this season.

    • boatsailor

      Naw you keep the broken down bum, One more good hit and he is done. as in gone…b

  • Redfrognetworks

    Haha boat sailor. Yea, lets have a football conversation that doesn’t involve superbowls. Cause the Super Bowl doesn’t matter. Well I guess it doesn’t matter if your a Dolts fan. Why would it?

    It’s amazing. You guys sit around and bash other teams, and you can’t even sniff a big win. IN FIFTY PLUS YEARS!!! Your team is a joke. The Raiders r a joke too. But at least we r realists. We know how bad we have been and how good we used to be.

    You guys? Delusional. Gates on the Pro Bowl? Hilarious. The Dolts have never won anything and never will. Don’t wanna talk about superbowls? Can’t say I blame you. LMFAO.

  • miketuck

    Are the guys over at Walther Football playing Madden and just bad at even video games. These guys are a horrible joke among writers. Does anyone see how writing has become a shock value sport. The SI pieces use to write in depth articles on the human beings behind their sports. Today it’s negative X5, it’s all trash talk. I wonder how much damage the web has done to good reporting.